Older Schilke 51 w/ Long Shank

[cigmar]

Does anyone know the specs on this piece?

[chromebone]

Same as the modern one, 5gish size with flatter rim and more inner rim bite, but the shank is a dual taper B&S/Morse taper as opposed to the Morse taper on the modern ones.

[cigmar]

Same as the modern one, 5gish size with flatter rim and more inner rim bite, but the shank is a dual taper B&S/Morse taper as opposed to the Morse taper on the modern ones.

Thanks. Just to be clear, which version has the flatter rim w/ more bite, the modern one or the old one?

[chromebone]

I should clarify: I was comparing the 51 rim to a Bach 5g. The top end of the long and short 51’s are, at least in theory, the same. But like many manufacturers, there is some variance in the pre CNC days. Personally, I prefer the long shank versions; the longer shank focuses the sound in a different way from the shorter shank.

[cigmar]

I have a 51 with the long shank. Like the way it plays but actually was looking for a rim with a flatter profile and more edge. Thought maybe the new ones fit the bill. Don't quite understand the B&S/Morse Taper vs. Morse taper difference and effect though. Can anyone explain?

[chromebone]

These tapers refer to standard tapers used in machining/manufacture. The B&S taper (Brown and Sharpe) is known as the Remington taper to us trombonists. Conn used to use the B&S taper on their large bore instruments.

Back in the old days, each instrument manufacturer used their own taper for their mouthpieces/leadpipes, the expectation being you would use their mouthpiece on their horn. When Bach mouthpieces became the standard, the Morse taper, which was what Bach used, eventually became the standard for all large bore trombones. If you've ever tried to put a Bach Mouthpiece into a pre UMI 88H, the mouthpiece will wobble and not seat properly, unless the leadpipe has been re-formed from years of forcing a Morse taper into it.

The Schilke long shank was designed to fit in either a B&S or Morse taper leadpipe.

[sungfw]

These tapers refer to standard tapers used in machining/manufacture. The B&S taper (Brown and Sharpe) is known as the Remington taper to us trombonists. Conn used to use the B&S taper on their large bore instruments.

The Schilke long shank was designed to fit in either a B&S or Morse taper leadpipe.

Not disputing that many (most) trombonists believe the taper of the Remington shank is B&S, but for the record …

[Posaunus]

These tapers refer to standard tapers used in machining/manufacture. The B&S taper (Brown and Sharpe) is known as the Remington taper to us trombonists. Conn used to use the B&S taper on their large bore instruments.

The Schilke long shank was designed to fit in either a B&S or Morse taper leadpipe.

Not disputing that many (most) trombonists believe the taper of the Remington shank is B&S, but for the record …

Yes, it's true that the old Conn large-shank receivers (and mouthpieces) are not exactly Brown & Sharpe taper, but they're pretty close to that machining standard, and are clearly different than the Morse taper now used in "standard" large-shank mouthpieces. And it's less of a mouthful to say "B&S taper" rather than "Conn large-shank trombone taper." Especially when most of know what you're talking about when you say "B&S taper" or "Remington taper." I can live with that characterization. The point is that there is a difference, and it affects how mouthpieces fit into trombones.

[greenbean]

...
The Schilke long shank was designed to fit in either a B&S or Morse taper leadpipe.

Are you sure you don't have it backwards? I see to recall that the modern beveled Schilkes have the dual taper...

[PhilE]

I have both long and short versions.
The long shank is not really a dual taper. It's more of an in between taper.
It doesn't sit quite right in the Bach or the Conn 88H but will work in either.
It does play and feel different to the short shank version even though the cup and rim is nominally identical.

[cigmar]

My long shank fits fine in my Shires. No wobble.