Bach 1.5G upgrades

[scottcb]

Hi guys, I know the 1.5G has been discussed a lot! I've read many pages of your expertise and experience, but was hoping for some specific advice.

I've recently started playing again for the first time in over a decade and I'm loving it. I currently use a Bach 1.5G with my Bach 50K3. I like my current mouthpiece, but I'm keen to see if a different mouthpiece would be a step up. I'm considering something in a similar size and options in-store are very limited in Australia, so will be buying sight unseen.

Options I'm considering (subject to availability):

Rath B1 1/2 W
Marcinkiewicz 1 1/2G
Greg Black 1 1/2G
Griego Dave Taylor 1.75

I mainly play big band music along the lines of Buddy Rich, Gordon Goodwin etc. I'm aiming to find something that allows me to both blend in with the other bones when required but also to pump out the low stuff when needed. I'm working on my embouchure in practice, but I'm not a professional-level player so I'll need something somewhat forgiving.

Thanks in advance!
Scott

[Elow]

Symington 1.5

[Rusty]

Hey Scott, I’m a doubler but have played both the Rath and the Greg Black 1.5g borrowed from a colleague. Both are good pieces but I prefer the sound and response of the GB (medium weight).

I’m in Australia too, consider posting on the Australian Trombone Marketplace on Facebook and I’m sure you’ll find a few people looking to offload pieces in this size. Way cheaper than buying new!

[BGuttman]

The Bach 1.5G can be pretty variable. If you have a good one, none of your alternatives will be better. If you have a bad one, any of them will be better.

The Marcinkiewicz 1 1/2G used to be the Model 3. I played a model 3 for years and found it to be a nice mouthpiece. I still keep it in the case for when I need to play bass after not playing bass for a while (my normal bass setup is an Elliott LB 112 / L / L7 -- much bigger).

I haven't tried any of the others you listed so I can't comment.

[pompatus]

I’ve recently been exploring pieces in that range, as well, mostly to playtest some mouthpieces before listing them for sale. Your equipment and anatomy are different than mine, though, so make sure to come to your own conclusions.

The Symington 1.5 that Elow suggested is a fantastic piece, and my “go to” in that size range.

I found the Rath B 1 1/2W to be a great example of the size. The wide rim was very comfortable to me, and I found it more comfortable to play on than some of the thinner-rimmed bass pieces that are typical.

I have a Marcinkiewicz George Roberts model, which became their model 1.5G. I want to like it, probably out of nostalgia and name more than anything, and I come back to it periodically just to try, but it never does it for me. I have a difficult time centering notes on it, and find the rim somewhat uncomfortable. I’ve wondered if the weight, or lack of, makes it a bit more unstable than other pieces, at least for me.

The Greg Black 1 1/2G in standard weight is another wonderful piece. He has several different weight options, and it’s worth the enlightenment of comparing them side-by-side for yourself to see how the weight changes the feel and playing characteristics, but the standard weight seems to be the overwhelming favorite. I have a 1 1/2G in heavy weight that plays fine, but the weight of it makes it feel a bit too stable and inflexible.

The Symington 1.5, in my opinion, is the finest of the bunch. It’s a very well-balanced mouthpiece with plenty of punch that is still dark and malleable when needed. Forum member Islander is the man to talk to about procuring one, and there are many reviews here and on Facebook.

[Bach5G]

“Pompatus said…”

Nice, thanks.

[scottcb]

Great feedback so far guys, much appreciated.

It seems like the Symington is only available in Zirconium at the moment ($512 USD) so that option might be pushing the friendship with my fiancée a little too much haha.

Rusty, Good call on the the Australian Trombone Marketplace. Will check it out, thanks.

[islander]

Hi Scott, I've got some brass ones coming along soon have no fear.

Bill

[hyperbolica]

The Ferguson V is a nice 1.5g mouthpiece for big band. It's got a little edge to it, and allows more high range than other pieces. It's comparatively cheap from Horn Guys.

[Fridge]

I was one of testers for the new GB 1 7/16. A slightly oversized 11/2. Terrific piece. Still playing this. Works great on my Greenhoe and my Xeno 830.

Fridge

[bassclef]

I was one of testers for the new GB 1 7/16. A slightly oversized 11/2. Terrific piece. Still playing this. Works great on my Greenhoe and my Xeno 830.

Fridge

I've been playing one for a couple weeks, and I LOVE it. Over the past several years, I've been through every mouthpiece I could get my hands on in the "slightly oversized 1.5G" range and this is the best one.

[vetsurginc]

Might want to speak with Doug Elliot for suggestions. I was playing bigger pieces (Schilke 60 and 59, Denis Wick 1AL). But some things like octave jumps and extremes (third part in some jazz and orchestral pieces that needed quick changes) seemed more work than they needed to be.

Doug set me up with an LB MW 113 rim, LB L cup, and L9 backbore (originally sent some alternates with those). Found much easier to play the way I wanted, especially with shifts. This on a Rath R9.

[Savio]

For me the Symington 1.5 work’s great, I have the brass version. What works for you is difficult to guess. But there is of course lot of mouthpieces out there. And if you have a good Bach as some above told…..well, many make it works wonders. An upgrade could even be a Bach 2g. Like this one play:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=tQW_1Roflvc&feature=share

Amazing!

Leif

[Posaunus]

... a Bach 2G. Like this one:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=tQW_1Roflvc&feature=share

Amazing!

Leif

Great sound. Listen with your ears, not your eyes!

I've always thought "smaller" bass trombone mouthpieces (Bach 2G, Giardinelli 1G, Yamaha 58L, ...) were under-rated. It's how you play them, not what the box says!

[Savio]

https://youtube.com/watch?v=Nw_u1at6LZc&feature=share

This one I played with a Doug Elliott MB 108 with his conn shank, very comfortable mouthpiece, very fun music to play. Long time before the movie about that group came up. But it shows there is lot of great mouthpieces. The clue is to learn how to play them….. and maybe even more important; decide one and then work at it. (Which I never did )

Leif

[scottcb]

Hi Scott, I've got some brass ones coming along soon have no fear.

Bill

Thanks for the update Bill. Do you have a rough idea when the brass ones will be ready?

[Bach5G]

For me the Symington 1.5 work’s great, I have the brass version. What works for you is difficult to guess. But there is of course lot of mouthpieces out there. And if you have a good Bach as some above told…..well, many make it works wonders. An upgrade could even be a Bach 2g. Like this one play:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=tQW_1Roflvc&feature=share

Amazing!

Leif

That’s a heck of a sound.

[Matt K]

If you have limited availability to try things out I might consider ordering something from Doug. That would give you the ability to buy say, 2 shanks and use the one that suits you best. An MB108mW/MB J/J8 would probably be a great choice for you.

[islander]

Hi Scott, I've got some brass ones coming along soon have no fear.

Bill

Thanks for the update Bill. Do you have a rough idea when the brass ones will be ready?

They're away being plated, Scott. So another week or so I would hope, depending on how busy my plating chap is.

[tbonesullivan]

I just got in a Ferguson V from Hornguys.

'A bass trombone mouthpiece in a New York 1.5G size, V shaped cup, for players wanting a smaller, most efficient bass trombone mouthpiece but with a wide comfortable rim, based on my Minick V, cup diameter 27.4 mm.'

I'll let you know how it compares to a Faxx 1 1/2G

[hyperbolica]

I just got in a Ferguson V from Hornguys.

........
I'll let you know how it compares to a Faxx 1 1/2G

I've had one of these for a long time. I think you'll find it's brighter with more edge. Plays like a smaller piece but with a lot more power.

I like it on a large tenor/small bass. It plays "low enough" without sacrificing the high range an octave above middle C the way bigger mouthpieces do.

I used it once with an Olds S22 (single trigger dual bore slide) on bass part in Holsts Perfect Fool. Really complemented the tuba to put some teeth in the bottom.

I use it regularly in tbone quartet with an 88h on the bass part when a second trigger isn't needed.

[scottcb]

Does anyone have any insight on how some of the other choices in this size range handle the upper and lower registers compared to the Bach 1 1/2G? (eg. Symington 1.5, Rath B1 1/2W, Greg Black 1 1/2G, Marcinkiewicz 1 1/2G, Griego Dave Taylor 1.75)

Probably leaning towards the Symington at this point but it’s a very interesting discussion.

[BGuttman]

from what i understand (and islander can confirm this) the Symington is a copy of a Mount Venon 1 1/2 G. These have been prized over the years because of their superior qualities.

I can't believe choosing a particular mouthpiece will magically enhance any aspect of your playing. Most are tradeoffs of some kind or another. One may work better for you, but it's hard to predict.

[blast]

The Symington 1.5 is a copy of one of my Mount Vernon Bachs, the Rath B1.5W is a copy of another of my Mount Vernon Bachs. Both were subject to some modification along the way. Greg Black's are fine mouthpieces as is the Marcinkiewicz George Roberts. I have all these. I have an original Minick V as well, though I've never been keen on those.
Every single example of every mouthpiece is different.
All you you can do is find a mouthpiece that is comfortable for you, blows well in your instrument and then set about learning how to make it work.
You are the biggest variable.

Chris

[Vegasbound]

Work with Doug Elliott

[Posaunus]

You are the biggest variable.

Chris

[WGWTR180]

The Symington 1.5 is a copy of one of my Mount Vernon Bachs, the Rath B1.5W is a copy of another of my Mount Vernon Bachs. Both were subject to some modification along the way. Greg Black's are fine mouthpieces as is the Marcinkiewicz George Roberts. I have all these. I have an original Minick V as well, though I've never been keen on those.
Every single example of every mouthpiece is different.
All you you can do is find a mouthpiece that is comfortable for you, blows well in your instrument and then set about learning how to make it work.
You are the biggest variable.

Chris

[scottcb]

Thanks for the input guys. Rest assured I know that practice is the most important component here.

Maybe I’m searching for a unicorn but a lot of people on here seem to prefer other options in this size range. I quite like my Bach 1.5G but I’m interested to see if I can find something similar but which works ‘better’ for me.

[Savio]

Thanks for the input guys. Rest assured I know that practice is the most important component here…..

We all know but don’t worry, most of us still have a box full of mouthpieces
To my defence I did sell most of them…..Chris is the man to listen. The variable is our self.

Leif

[hyperbolica]

I’m interested to see if I can find something similar but which works ‘better’ for me.

All the above, of course, but it depends on what you mean by the word better. Better for what, or in what circumstances?

[bassclef]

An upgrade could even be a Bach 2g. Like this one play:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=tQW_1Roflvc&feature=share
Amazing!
Leif

Doesn't he play a Greg Black 1.5?

I see the quartet he's a member of endorsed on GB's social media from time to time and there's an endorsement he wrote on the 1.5G product page: https://gregblackmouthpieces.com/collec ... mouthpiece

An outstanding player & sound either way!

[blast]

Scary...only a few years ago, Angus was a kid who I gave a couple of lessons to and sold a Holton TR180. Now a force to be reconed with !!
After posting here I checked out some of the mouthpieces referred to. My old MV 1 1/2g with the wide rim is better than I remember....sort of awesome.

Chris

[Bach5G]

Who in their right mind plays a 1 and a 1/2G?

https://trombonechat.com/viewtopic.php? ... mind#p2477

[blast]

Who in their right mind plays a 1 and a 1/2G?

https://trombonechat.com/viewtopic.php? ... mind#p2477

Ah !! 2006...a good year....that wonderful MV Bach was everything I said....it also had an uncomfortable rim...at least for me. In the end it didn't last as it was uncomfortable. I have been surprised re- visiting the wide rim Bach at how good it feels now. Different instrument now...probably a different face after 15 years !!!! It's nice.

Chris