In the market to try something new

[Lubon]

Hello,

I just created an account here since I found that TTF was not online anymore. (Yeahh I know I am late)

I've been playing with the same MP, a Bach 6 1/2AL, for 12 years. I don't have anything against it, I juste never tried anything else. Just for the heck of it, I'd like to try something new.

I am not a gear nerd so I'd like some pointers on what to look for.

My trombones are a Conn 6H (Elkart) and a Yamaha YSL-648.

Thanks a lot!!

[Richard3rd]

I'm going to be serious here. You've played the same mouthpiece for 12 years. Why would you switch?

[OneTon]

Welcome to trombone chat.

I like the Mount Vernon Bach 11C that I currently play on. I surveyed jazz trombone players ten years ago. There seemed to be a predominance of those players playing 11Cs or close variations at that time. The current Bach 11C is close. Faxx mouthpieces are good copies of Mount Vernon mouthpieces and they are cheaper. They have a 7C that is close dimensionally to an 11C. The Schilke 47 that I played for 30 years is a good mouthpiece. It plays bigger than the dimensions would indicate.

[harrisonreed]

If it works, don't fix it. Do you have something you want to find in a different mp?

[Lubon]

If it works, don't fix it. Do you have something you want to find in a different mp?

My 6 1/2AL works alright. There seems to have so much kind of mouthpiece rims, cups, sizes, coatings, etc.
I know my thing is working right now and I don't need to change. But I'm at a point where I need to ask the question about other mouthpieces.

Would going from a Bach to a Denis Wick in the same kind of size be a big change? If not, would I need to drastically change the rim, cup and bore? I've never tried so I don't know. But from the list of mouthpieces I've checked, there seems to be so much difference between a lot of them.

[Vegasbound]

As others have said…… why?

[harrisonreed]

If you want something crazy different but still familiar, get something with the same rim size, but a different throat and backbore. Something like a 6.5 but with a big backbore might be really cool.

"If you want a change, have a change. Don't date your ex's twin sister"

-Karl Dilkington

[DaveAshley]

If you want something crazy different but still familiar, get something with the same rim size, but a different throat and backbore. Something like a 6.5 but with a big backbore might be really cool.

Or a 6 1/2A (Which I would probably prefer on a 6H)

[Lubon]

If you want something crazy different but still familiar, get something with the same rim size, but a different throat and backbore. Something like a 6.5 but with a big backbore might be really cool.

"If you want a change, have a change. Don't date your ex's twin sister"

-Karl Dilkington

You got me with that last quote!
Keeping the same rim size is a good idea. Also, I find it funny that everyone is asking why, but everyone seems to have an opinion on certain mouthpieces. I imagine you guys have tried quite a bit of mouthpiece. In the same way, I want to try some just to satisfy my curiosity. I might end up with the same one I've been playing but I at least want to try some.

Thanks a lot for the tips people!

[BGuttman]

If you like the cup but want to try a radically different rim, try a Wick 10CS. You may love it or you may hate it (never seems to be a middle ground with these). I'd recommend try before you buy or get a generous return policy on it -- you'll know immediately if it's not for you.

[Richard3rd]

Okay, how about this. There are many 6 1/2C variants. Stork makes one, the Stork Custom 1 size. Much more V shaped cup. Two options for bore size. Not too expensive. I have 1, 2 and 3 sizes in the standard bore. I find the cup shape lends itself to better slotting and easier response.

[calcbone]

Okay, how about this. There are many 6 1/2C variants. Stork makes one, the Stork Custom 1 size. Much more V shaped cup. Two options for bore size. Not too expensive. I have 1, 2 and 3 sizes in the standard bore. I find the cup shape lends itself to better slotting and easier response.

I play the T1 on my King 3B Silversonic. Love the combo. Would probably work well on a 6H also…it’ll give you more bite, in any case!

[Trav1s]

While not a 6H, I have played a fair amount on a 77H, a 24H, and a Kanstul 750. I landed on a Faxx 6.5AL or a Bach 6.5 AM as the best fit for me. The Faxx felt a bit small but I liked the response. The 6.5AM felt better but the sound was lacking.

I could never find a good fit on the 24H but a Faxx 7C was workable. I ended up with a Doug Elliott combo that fit the bill and won't go back.

His modular approach allows me to keep the same size rim across all tenors then adjusts the cup depth and shank accordingly. In my case, the I got the first DE setup he put together for my 79H at ITF. It was an epiphany for me and I was not looking to change since had played the same 51B on and off since the late 80's. I tried other stuff along the way and kept coming back to the 51B. Doug worked with me for 15-20 minutes and we tried out 4 different combos. I settled on one of the first two he put together for me.

[andym]

I appreciate Doug Elliott’s approach that the rim fits the player and the cup and back bore fit the desired sound and instrument. So, I think that leaves 3 approaches:

1) try some different mouthpieces with close to the same rim size. I played a 6.5A for many years and found I was just a bit more comfortable with a hair larger rim. 5g in the Bach world or 1.01 for Doug’s mouthpieces. But varying cups and back bores can make a lot of difference to the sound.

The other approach would be to try a couple of mouthpieces with slightly smaller and larger rims and see if either feels better to you. Having found a good rim size, you can then explore various mouthpieces with that rim.

Alternatively, take a video lesson with Doug and he may be able to guide you on your embouchure and rim size. I did that almost 20 years ago and greatly benefitted from his insights into my face and playing. My lesson was in person and, despite that I asked him to bring along sample mouthpieces, he never even opened that case. He felt the mouthpiece I was playing was fine and we focused on technique.

A few years later, I switched to his mouthpieces so I could maintain the same rim on alto and various tenors. But that was my idea.

[Vegasbound]

This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[LeTromboniste]

If you want to try a different rim size, then maybe a Bach 5G, see if the slightly larger rim is good for you, and then you can always see if you want to explore others in that size that are more different then you can do so.

But I would tend to agree with Harrison here, maybe a good place to start is to try something with more or less the same rim size but very different in other regards. An interesting mouthpiece that would have almost the same rim size as yours but very different design overall is the Yamaha Trudel.

[MrHCinDE]

If you want an idea of something to try just out of curiosity, how about a Conn 3? They’re relatively cheap and plentiful, if you buy sensibly and end up not liking it you should easily be able to re-sell.

The rim doesn’t feel a million miles away from a 6 1/2 AL but the sound and response on a 6H (and 8h with .525” slide), at least for me, is totally different. I might be wrong but think they were originally shipped with the 6h at some points, I have a totally illogical soft spot for horns with their original shipped mouthpieces.

Taking lessons or advice from an embouchure expert as many others have said is also a good shout.

[Lubon]

I appreciate Doug Elliott’s approach that the rim fits the player and the cup and back bore fit the desired sound and instrument. So, I think that leaves 3 approaches:

1) try some different mouthpieces with close to the same rim size. I played a 6.5A for many years and found I was just a bit more comfortable with a hair larger rim. 5g in the Bach world or 1.01 for Doug’s mouthpieces. But varying cups and back bores can make a lot of difference to the sound.

The other approach would be to try a couple of mouthpieces with slightly smaller and larger rims and see if either feels better to you. Having found a good rim size, you can then explore various mouthpieces with that rim.

Alternatively, take a video lesson with Doug and he may be able to guide you on your embouchure and rim size. I did that almost 20 years ago and greatly benefitted from his insights into my face and playing. My lesson was in person and, despite that I asked him to bring along sample mouthpieces, he never even opened that case. He felt the mouthpiece I was playing was fine and we focused on technique.

A few years later, I switched to his mouthpieces so I could maintain the same rim on alto and various tenors. But that was my idea.

After reading a lot of the comments here I think that's the method I'm going to go with. Go with the same rim size and change the back bores and cups. I'll take the mouthpiece suggestion too.

In term of Doug Elliot, is he still giving lessons? And how do I get in touch with him?

[andym]

He’s on this forum and giving online lessons. You can also find contact info on his web site.

http://www.dougelliottmouthpieces.com/

[Doug Elliott]

I'm right here

[Lubon]

I'm right here

That was easy enough. Do you prefer people to get in touch with you here in PM or on your website? I'm not quite ready to take a lesson but in the near future it's an idea that sound great.

[Doug Elliott]

Here is fine, I check in pretty frequently.