Better than a wedge?

[leafylief]

I've got a 5GS wedge mouth piece. I've always loved it's responsiveness. It's all silver, I was thinking about getting something with gold plating. Any wedge users find something they like better?

[Posaunus]

I don't think there's really anything like a Wedge. If you like your mouthpiece but want it in gold plate, send it to Dave Friedman at "Mouthpiece Plating Service" in Washington. He does an excellent job.
[email protected]
toll free in U.S. (877) 255-0193
https://mouthpieceplatingservice.com/

[Fidbone]

Any wedge users find something they like better?

Yes!
A non-wedge

[harrisonreed]

I've got a 5GS wedge mouth piece. I've always loved it's responsiveness. It's all silver, I was thinking about getting something with gold plating. Any wedge users find something they like better?

Turn it 90°. Completely new mouthpiece! Game changer

[walldaja]

I was a Wedge user from 2009 until 2018. I ended going to a Christian Lindberg. Use it on small bore, large bore, and bass.

Not good for real low notes on bass so I have a Bach 1 1/4.

I still keep a Delrin 5G Wedge around for cold outside gigs.

[Matt K]

The delrin rims are way better than the silver ones, in my opinion. I also prefer lexan to silver fwiw, but I responded much better to the delrin shape than the silver plated one when I tried them. Since the idea is you have a little more grip on the top and bottom and less material on the corners, that makes sense to me at least.

[Macbone1]

I think the Wedge rim concept is brilliant and I wish the good doctor all kinds of continued success. Even though the rim "feels thick" to me, articulations are nice and crisp. I like and even need the increased endurance I get, to survive a 90 min brass choir concert or 3 hr dance.
The only thing "better" might be if someone prefers a narrower rim. I'm used to a narrower rim (on my bass trp and my symphonic trb) but still like my Wedge.

[Matt K]

I think the idea of the Wedge is that it is a mixture of wide rim (top and bottom) and narrow rim (sides). If it was just a narrow rim, there wouldn't be much material left on the sides or it would jsut be a regular rim! Which, I think, is why they don't really do anything special for me on trombone. On trumpet, I found they have a little more utility and if things had played out differently, I might be on a wedge. They used to have Monette style pieces, but he no longer offers them; when Kanstul closed, I got a few pieces at a good price that I later discovered were Monette style pieces (short shank) and so I'm on those now.

[boneberg]

Better than a wedge?

A weggie of course!

[brassmedic]

I never understood the concept of the Wedge. I have literally never had the thought: "I wish there were more metal jutting out of the rim and pushing against my upper and lower lips."

[2bobone]

As "Dr. Dave" Harrison says, " The Wedge works for some and not for others". A long trial period and refund says it all. There is no need for any controversy. Try it or don't try it, but don't disrespect something with which you haven't had the experience necessary to form an opinion. I'm just sayin' !

[Posaunus]

Brad,

I may not really understand the "concept" of the Wedge, but its execution is clearly more than "more metal jutting out of the rim and pushing against my upper and lower lips."

One might speculate why mouthpieces are perfectly circular in the first place? It certainly has nothing to do with the anatomy of our lips. It's simply that that's the easiest way to manufacture a device to buzz into to get a sound out of a brass instrument. I imagine the ideal buzz creator would be far from circular at the lip interface - but I'm not about to embark on the research to create such a gadget. However, with modern manufacturing techniques (metal injection molding, 3D printing, etc.), it's certainly conceivable that such devices could be readily made.

I happened to stumble upon an acrylic small-shank Wedge mouthpiece [101G - nominal 25.65mm Cup, 7.11mm Throat, in a beautiful (to my eyes) blue color] that actually works quite well when I want a "large" sound from a medium-bore trombone. Both low and high ranges speak freely, and (to my face) it's quite comfortable. Not my only mouthpiece, but a nice tool in my kit. Perhaps you should try one.

[brassmedic]

Brad,

I may not really understand the "concept" of the Wedge,

Then why are you posting here?

but its execution is clearly more than "more metal jutting out of the rim and pushing against my upper and lower lips."

Is it, though? Have you actually looked at one? That seems EXACTLY what it is. It is an asymmetrical rim that juts out further on the top and bottom. If not, please explain the concept behind it. I'll wait.

[Matt K]

The ones that I've tried haven't added material on the top and bottom inasmuch as they've reduced material on the sides, though admittedly I've never taken a caliper to them. I already play on a narrow rim for everything, so I already have narrow sides. My guess is that some people benefit from having a hybrid, where the sides are narrower, so you get a little extra flexibility out of it without sacrificing whatever benefit you get from having a "normal" width on the top and bottom.

[afugate]

I never understood the concept of the Wedge. I have literally never had the thought: "I wish there were more metal jutting out of the rim and pushing against my upper and lower lips."

It doesn't seem to have more metal jutting out. The intended horizontal axis is just narrowed. I'd describe it like a hybrid wide/narrow rim structure.

--Andy in OKC

[Bach5G]

I never understood the concept of the Wedge. I have literally never had the thought: "I wish there were more metal jutting out of the rim and pushing against my upper and lower lips."

Dr. Harrison has a lot of info on his website. He is also accessible through email. I’m sure he’d be happy to explain it to you and answer your questions. You could even buy a mpc and try it out. There is a generous return and refund policy. Then you could let us know what you think.

[Posaunus]

I may not really understand the "concept" of the Wedge,

Then why are you posting here?

but its execution is clearly more than "more metal jutting out of the rim and pushing against my upper and lower lips."

Is it, though? Have you actually looked at one? That seems EXACTLY what it is. It is an asymmetrical rim that juts out further on the top and bottom. If not, please explain the concept behind it. I'll wait.

Brad,

It was certainly not my intention to start a controversy with, or alienate, one of my favorite brass craftsmen – your work is exceptional. But I think it’s a bit of an exaggeration to dramatically characterize the Wedge shape as “more metal jutting out of the rim and pushing against my upper and lower lips.” Since I have “actually looked at one” I can testify that the effect of the variation of Rim and Cup shape is pretty subtle. The sides of the rim are slightly recessed relative to the top and bottom, so the mouthpiece conforms a bit better to my lips than a flat rim, and the cup is slightly oval. And contrary to some of the comments, the actual Rim Width seems pretty constant around the circumference. I’ll leave it up to “Dr. Dave” to explain the “concept” and rationale behind this design:
https://wedgemouthpiece.com/the-wedge-design/

I don’t think it’s all voodoo ... nor do I believe that’s it’s a silver (or plastic) bullet that is the answer to everyone’s mouthpiece issues. But my Delrin Wedge 101G feels comfortable on my face (no noticeable jutting) and I think it plays pretty well. My brass-playing colleagues seem to like the sound I produce with it.

I’ll leave it at that.

Peace.

[Bach5G]

FWIW, the original concept was inspired by Jon Faddis’ chops.

[brassmedic]

I never understood the concept of the Wedge. I have literally never had the thought: "I wish there were more metal jutting out of the rim and pushing against my upper and lower lips."

It doesn't seem to have more metal jutting out. The intended horizontal axis is just narrowed. I'd describe it like a hybrid wide/narrow rim structure.

--Andy in OKC

I don't agree with your usage of the terms "wide" and "narrow". Usually, when we refer to a mouthpiece rim, "width" would be the measurement from the outside circle of the rim to the inside circle. If the mouthpiece is positioned vertically, the measurement between the top and bottom of the rim would be called the "thickness" of the rim, not the width. The thickness of the rim doesn't really affect how the rim feels on your chops; only the contour matters in that regard. The contour of the Wedge mouthpiece is such that, when positioned vertically, the parts of the rim that contact the topand bottom of your lips jut out further than the parts of the rim that contact the sides.

[brassmedic]

Then why are you posting here?

Is it, though? Have you actually looked at one? That seems EXACTLY what it is. It is an asymmetrical rim that juts out further on the top and bottom. If not, please explain the concept behind it. I'll wait.

Brad,

It was certainly not my intention to start a controversy with, or alienate, one of my favorite brass craftsmen – your work is exceptional. But I think it’s a bit of an exaggeration to dramatically characterize the Wedge shape as “more metal jutting out of the rim and pushing against my upper and lower lips.” Since I have “actually looked at one” I can testify that the effect of the variation of Rim and Cup shape is pretty subtle. The sides of the rim are slightly recessed relative to the top and bottom, so the mouthpiece conforms a bit better to my lips than a flat rim, and the cup is slightly oval. And contrary to some of the comments, the actual Rim Width seems pretty constant around the circumference. I’ll leave it up to “Dr. Dave” to explain the “concept” and rationale behind this design:
https://wedgemouthpiece.com/the-wedge-design/

I don’t think it’s all voodoo ... nor do I believe that’s it’s a silver (or plastic) bullet that is the answer to everyone’s mouthpiece issues. But my Delrin Wedge 101G feels comfortable on my face (no noticeable jutting) and I think it plays pretty well. My brass-playing colleagues seem to like the sound I produce with it.

I’ll leave it at that.

Peace.

There's nothing "dramatic" about what I wrote. I certainly wasn't trying to offend anyone. It's a simple fact. Here is a picture of a Wedge mouthpiece from the Wedge website:

wedge2.png

As you can see, the top and bottom of the rim DO jut out further towards the lips than the sides. I didn't quantify the amount that it juts out, so to say I am "exaggerating" makes no sense. And to say "the sides are recessed" is just semantics. You're saying the same thing. Relative to the sides, the top and bottom jut out. Or, relative to the top and bottom, the sides are recessed. Potato, potahto. I can't for the life of me understand why people are trying to argue this point. Is your Wedge mouthpiece perhaps different than this design, which the maker describes as "the Wedge design"?

I'm glad you like the mouthpiece. I'm just saying that I, personally, do not understand what that design accomplishes. If anything, I would want less pressure on the top and bottom, not less pressure on the sides. There's no cause to get upset about it.

[afugate]

It doesn't seem to have more metal jutting out. The intended horizontal axis is just narrowed. I'd describe it like a hybrid wide/narrow rim structure.
--Andy in OKC

I don't agree with your usage of the terms "wide" and "narrow". Usually, when we refer to a mouthpiece rim, "width" would be the measurement from the outside circle of the rim to the inside circle. If the mouthpiece is positioned vertically, the measurement between the top and bottom of the rim would be called the "thickness" of the rim, not the width. The thickness of the rim doesn't really affect how the rim feels on your chops; only the contour matters in that regard. The contour of the Wedge mouthpiece is such that, when positioned vertically, the parts of the rim that contact the top and bottom of your lips jut out further than the parts of the rim that contact the sides.

Well I'll be darned. You're right. I got out my Wedge MP, put it on a flat surface and put a light behind it. I can see the curve. Never paid attention to it. Thanks for correcting me.

FWIW, I played the Wedge for quite a while and found it effective for me. But recently I've been working with Doug to fix some chop issues and don't seem to find any advantage to the Wedge currently.

--Andy in OKC.

[brassmedic]

I don't agree with your usage of the terms "wide" and "narrow". Usually, when we refer to a mouthpiece rim, "width" would be the measurement from the outside circle of the rim to the inside circle. If the mouthpiece is positioned vertically, the measurement between the top and bottom of the rim would be called the "thickness" of the rim, not the width. The thickness of the rim doesn't really affect how the rim feels on your chops; only the contour matters in that regard. The contour of the Wedge mouthpiece is such that, when positioned vertically, the parts of the rim that contact the top and bottom of your lips jut out further than the parts of the rim that contact the sides.

Well I'll be darned. You're right. I got out my Wedge MP, put it on a flat surface and put a light behind it. I can see the curve. Never paid attention to it. Thanks for correcting me.

FWIW, I played the Wedge for quite a while and found it effective for me. But recently I've been working with Doug to fix some chop issues and don't seem to find any advantage to the Wedge currently.

--Andy in OKC.

Oh, so we were using the same terminology after all. Sorry about that.