12E Mouthpiece?

[Jamesburton23]

i ve played Trombone for about 10 years now, i play on my local jazz band.
Lately i ve been required to play 1st/lead trombone and i need the brightest and brassiest sound possible, at the local music store i was recomended a Bach 12E Mouthpiece which i didnt even know existed.
i played on a Bach 12C since i started and i feel comfortable.
Does this thing works on 500. bore or its only for alto?
Other option i was suggested was a Schilke 42B.

[dukesboneman]

A 12C is a great lead mouthpiece. The 12E is really shallow.
Why do you need the brightest and Brassiest sound?
With practice the 12C will work

[dcslideman]

I have a 12E. It was originally for alto, but currently don't have an alto. It does OK with my Holton 65(.485" 1965 Buddy Morrow) and my XO 1634R(.508"). Definitely bright, a little thin sounding on the staff or below. I also have a Shilke 43A. Similar description.

[Matt K]

If anything, something a little bigger might help too. Sometimes having something a little more “open” actually feels easier to play. There’s nothing wrong with a 12C either, 12E is unorthodox but it could be fine too. If you’re in a location where you can try a few it’s definitely worth it to try some out and see if anything else works better for you. Often times you’ll know right away if something is a better fit.

[SteveFoote]

I think the guitar playing clerk at the local music store saw a opportunity to get rid of some mouthpieces that had been in stock for a LOOONG time. I know nothing about a 12E but I am very familiar with the 42B and the 12C. The 42B is supposed to be a copy of Tommy Dorsey's mouthpiece. It looks like an oversized French horn MP. Very small and funnel shaped. It is deeper than a 12C but only because of the long lead-in to the throat. I used it in church to play the Alto line out of the hymnal on a 3B SS and not overpower the strings, piano, organ and choir. It was a replacement for (drum roll) the 12C. The 12C was much more brilliant and in the upper register sounds almost like a trumpet. It simply was not suitable for a modest sized church.
It doesn't sound like your band is playing TD style. If that is correct you probably don"t want a 42B.
I would not buy anything without a good trial. What sounds good and loud in the practice room at a music store will probably sound completely different on the bandstand.

[Posaunus]

You could search a long time these days to find a lead trombone player in a "jazz band" who uses a Bach 12E or a Schilke 42B, or anything that small.

[greenbean]

Just use the 12C. And forget about the 12E - it was just a bad recommendation.

[Jamesburton23]

I have a 12E. It was originally for alto, but currently don't have an alto. It does OK with my Holton 65(.485" 1965 Buddy Morrow) and my XO 1634R(.508"). Definitely bright, a little thin sounding on the staff or below. I also have a Shilke 43A. Similar description.

Thanks for the comment, i ll keep that in mind!

[Jamesburton23]

If anything, something a little bigger might help too. Sometimes having something a little more “open” actually feels easier to play. There’s nothing wrong with a 12C either, 12E is unorthodox but it could be fine too. If you’re in a location where you can try a few it’s definitely worth it to try some out and see if anything else works better for you. Often times you’ll know right away if something is a better fit.

Luckly i live in a big city where i was able to try lots of mouthpieces, i tried things such as 5GS, 4C, 7C, YAMAHA 48, 11C, 6.5AL, SCHILKE 48 etc.
Big mouthpieces definitely dont work for me. Cant find a 12E to try one though. I was looking for something shallower than a 12C

[Jamesburton23]

Just use the 12C. And forget about the 12E - it was just a bad recommendation.

Probably, i m not certain since i even havent seen a 12E yet.
Yesterday searchig in local music stores was also recomended a Schilke 45B. Havent seen that one either.

[Jamesburton23]

You could search a long time these days to find a lead trombone player in a "jazz band" who uses a Bach 12E or a Schilke 42B, or anything that small.

Cant argue on that, but who knows, every face is different. Yesterday i was also recomended a Schilke 45B on another store. Dont know how that one is.

[Jamesburton23]

I think the guitar playing clerk at the local music store saw a opportunity to get rid of some mouthpieces that had been in stock for a LOOONG time. I know nothing about a 12E but I am very familiar with the 42B and the 12C. The 42B is supposed to be a copy of Tommy Dorsey's mouthpiece. It looks like an oversized French horn MP. Very small and funnel shaped. It is deeper than a 12C but only because of the long lead-in to the throat. I used it in church to play the Alto line out of the hymnal on a 3B SS and not overpower the strings, piano, organ and choir. It was a replacement for (drum roll) the 12C. The 12C was much more brilliant and in the upper register sounds almost like a trumpet. It simply was not suitable for a modest sized church.
It doesn't sound like your band is playing TD style. If that is correct you probably don"t want a 42B.
I would not buy anything without a good trial. What sounds good and loud in the practice room at a music store will probably sound completely different on the bandstand.

Thank you for the review on the 42B, i have never seen that mouthpiece on a store, so i didint know exactly how it was. Im not looking for a particular TD Stlye but i need to play lot above the staff. The 12C is OK but i think that the sound would be better if it was even brighter. Yesterday on a small shop in my city i was recommended a Schilke 45B Mouthpiece which i was told it was a "Shallower 12C" i havent seen one so i dont know how true that is. If you have some information on that one, that would be fantastic too.
Thank you!

[BGuttman]

A little review with Doug Elliott or Dave Wilken will help a lot in your mouthpiece choice.

If your local shop doesn't have them, you can find a very wide selection at Mouthpiece Express (www.mouthpieceexpress.com). They also have a return policy so if you decide you don't like it and it's still in sellable condition you are only out the shipping both ways.

Unless you plan to "live" above the bass staff, a very small shallow mouthpiece won't sound good. If you notice, Tommy Dorsey never played low notes.

Everything is a compromise of some sort. You can improve the things that are missing (in some cases) with a lot of practicing. The conventional wisdom is to size for the low range and build into the upper.

[JeffBone44]

The people who work in the local music shops probably don't know much about trombone equipment. I'd take their advice with a grain of salt. The 12C is plenty small and the majority of people giving you advice here would agree with that. There are other mouthpiece makers besides Bach, Schilke and Yamaha to consider. I've tried a couple of Curry mouthpieces that were pretty bright. The Christian Lindberg mouthpieces can also sound very bright. I used a 13CL for about a year on small bore.

[greenbean]

Is the OP a human being?..

[Posaunus]

The Schilke 45B is indeed shallower than a Bach 12C. Not quite as tiny as a Schilke 42B.
My recommendation for a bright lead mouthpiece obtainable at your local music store would be a Schilke 47B. Worked well for me when I was playing lots of high range.

[Jamesburton23]

I think the guitar playing clerk at the local music store saw a opportunity to get rid of some mouthpieces that had been in stock for a LOOONG time. I know nothing about a 12E but I am very familiar with the 42B and the 12C. The 42B is supposed to be a copy of Tommy Dorsey's mouthpiece. It looks like an oversized French horn MP. Very small and funnel shaped. It is deeper than a 12C but only because of the long lead-in to the throat. I used it in church to play the Alto line out of the hymnal on a 3B SS and not overpower the strings, piano, organ and choir. It was a replacement for (drum roll) the 12C. The 12C was much more brilliant and in the upper register sounds almost like a trumpet. It simply was not suitable for a modest sized church.
It doesn't sound like your band is playing TD style. If that is correct you probably don"t want a 42B.
I would not buy anything without a good trial. What sounds good and loud in the practice room at a music store will probably sound completely different on the bandstand.

Thank you for the review on the 42B, i have never seen that mouthpiece on a store, so i didint know exactly how it was.
The sound im looking for is that of the TD Stlye you mentioned, (i think i didnt explain it right) because i need to play lot above the staff. So i want to ask (since you seem to know about the 42B): how does it feel, the rim, the range, endurance and sound?
The 12C is OK but i think that the sound would be better if it was even brighter. Yesterday on a small shop in my city i was recommended a Schilke 45B Mouthpiece which i was told it was a "Shallower 12C" i havent seen one so i dont know how true that is. If you have some information on that one, that would be fantastic too.
Thank you!

[imsevimse]

I played a 12C for many years, not a Bach 12C but a Benge 12C, that's a great mouthpiece. It is better than the Bach 12C (for me). I used a Bach 12E for alto in about 15 Mozart's Requiem in the 90ies. The Bach 12E works for lead parts in big band, but for me its a bit shallow, I like to have little sun in my sound, some sparkles, but to me the Bach 12E is a bit to much of that in a tenor but it depends what sound you like.

/Tom