Moving up the mouthpiece ladder

[TromboneWill]

Different post from the last one, this specifically about finding a new mouthpiece to use:

For context, I'm reaching the end of my 9th year of playing trombone (5 of only playing tenor, then these last 4 years I've only been playing bass.) As I've gathered, it seems the mouthpiece I've been using to play bass these last 4 years is somewhat similar to a Bach 1G/1.5G (I had an old Holton mouthpiece,) so I want to get advice on where to go from here.

I could always get a 1.5G and just keep using the standard, but I live near a music store that lets people try out mouthpieces and return it for a full refund, so I was thinking I could try out some new mouthpieces and see if I like them.

The Schilke 59/60 I've seen people recommend as good mouthpieces, but the store I'm at only has the 60s in stock. Another mouthpiece that I've seen that's caught my attention is the Yamaha Doug Yeo, it seems like a fine mouthpiece.

I'm very specifically looking for a mouthpiece that could get me through 4 years of going to a music college, and probably playing a variety of Orchestral, Wind Ensemble, and Jazz repertoire.

Any help would be appreciated

-Will

[BGuttman]

If I were you I'd stay with a 1.5G for a while.

Why switch? Only if you find you have a limitation that more guided (by a teacher) practice can't solve. If you have no idea what's wrong, there is almost no way to figure out if you solved a problem.

The 1.5G is comparable to the Schilke or Yamaha 58. The Wick 2NAL is a popular bass size, but the 1AL may work also. I also like the Marcinkiewicz 3 (sometimes sold as 1.5).

The next size bigger would be the Bach 1 1/4 G or Schilke 59. You may find these to have problems with notes above the staff being flat because the mouthpiece is too big for you at this level of playing.

Even as an experienced player I found the Bach 1G and Schilke 60 to be too big and the rims uncomfortable. These large mouthpieces are generally moved to by experienced (and much younger than me) bass trombone players.

[TromboneWill]

I do see your point, and if I wasn’t as lucky as I was to have a place where I can try out new mouthpieces for (almost completely) free, I’d definitely go for the 1.5G.

Given I have this chance to try out new mouthpieces, I think I’m going to make use of it, if I don’t like the mouthpiece I try out, I’ll go back to the old trusty 1.5G

I think I’m going to go try out the Yamaha Douglas Yeo mouthpiece today and see how I like it, but nothing is set in stone as of yet.

[tbonesullivan]

I would also recommend sticking with the 1.5G ish mouthpiece. What exactly do you feel is being limited by your current mouthpiece choice? Going from that to a Doug Yeo is a BIG jump. That mouthpiece is pretty wide open in the back bore, and is very deep, as well as being quite a bit wider in the rim. It also was designed for use on a dependent horn with traditional rotary valves and what I have heard is a somewhat long leadpipe.

Going to a mouthpiece that is too big is not really beneficial. I still remember a master class that I have mentioned before, given by Michael Mulcahy at Rutgers over 20 years ago. A bass trombone player was one of the attendees, and Mulcahy said that his sound was a bit airy and unfocused. He asked if he had any smaller mouthpieces, which he did, and the improvement for his sound was instantaneous.

I would definitely avoid thinking of mouthpiece sizes as a type of "ladder" that you work your way up to. That's not how it works.

[TromboneWill]

I’m mainly trying out the Yeo to see what it feels like, i don’t expect it to be anything like “Wow! This thing is incredible!” I want to just try it out and see what it’s like.

I’ve swapped my 6.5AL out for a 1.5G already (waiting for the store to get them in stock,) I just thought it would be interesting to try out a bigger mouthpiece as well, with the ability to to give it back in the probable scenario that I can’t use it well (the music store here let’s you have a trial period on mouthpieces where you can buy them, see how you like them, and give them back for a full refund if it’s not to your liking.)

Thank you for the advice, and I apologize if I came off sounding like “I know you’re all telling me this won’t work, but I know it’ll work for me!” I didn’t mean for it to sound like that.

As it stands now, I’m planning on getting the 1.5G when they come back in stock at the store, and I currently have the Yeo to try out and give back if I end up not being able to use it’s full size.

[TromboneWill]

I have an update after trying out the Yeo:

It's amazing to play on in the low registers, and even in mid registers, my low notes are clearer than they've ever been before, though the downside is the high registers are a bit harder to play, but that's what you get with such a large mouthpiece.

I do think I'm going to keep Yeo in my collection as it stands, I haven't used it for that long so I don't have a full sense of how it works with me yet. I do plan on buying a 1.5G for those higher notes, but they're not currently in stock.

[BGuttman]

You may grow into the Yeo. I was a returnee playing about 10 years on bass when I first met Doug Elliott. He took a look at me and put together something that was exactly like the Yeo (which hadn't been released at the time). I played this piece for the next 20 years.

[TromboneWill]

With enough practice, I feel I'll be able to get the higher registers out easier on the Yeo, as it's already mostly there, it'll just require some embouchure and breath support training on my part, but I think I can get there. It's vastly better for me than the 6.5AL I was using before.

[GGJazz]

Hi all.
Hi TromboneWill .

In my opinion , the Bach 1,5G have a too small throat : 0.276 . This measure is the same for 2G , 3G , 4G , 5G , and 6 1/2A . To me , this is a tenor-ish measure . I think that for this reason a lot of players do not use the Bach 1,5G on bass trbn . It is a bit difficult to play valves and pedal range with this piece , as it is with the ultra big ones ( Schilke 60 , ecc) .

Of course , I know that some players have a fantastic range and very strong dynamics with such a mpc , but i guess that for most people something a little bigger can help .

The Bach 1,5G have a 0.276 throat , and a 27.00 mm inner rim diameter .
The Schilke 58 can be better , to me : 0,296 throat and 27,68 mm inner rim.
To give another example , the Griego 2 have a 0,291 throat , and a 27,30 inner rim .

So , i suggest that before to move to a size like Schilke 59 (0,296 / 28,52 mm , that in my opinion can be an "enough big" bass trbn mpc ) , might be a good idea to stay around a 58- sized mpcs for a while .


Regards
Giancarlo

[Kevbach33]

Hi all.
Hi TromboneWill .

In my opinion , the Bach 1,5G have a too small throat : 0.276 . This measure is the same for 2G , 3G , 4G , 5G , and 6 1/2A . To me , this is a tenor-ish measure . I think that for this reason a lot of players do not use the Bach 1,5G on bass trbn . It is a bit difficult to play valves and pedal range with this piece , as it is with the ultra big ones ( Schilke 60 , ecc) .

Of course , I know that some players have a fantastic range and very strong dynamics with such a mpc , but i guess that for most people something a little bigger can help .

The Bach 1,5G have a 0.276 throat , and a 27.00 mm inner rim diameter .
The Schilke 58 can be better , to me : 0,296 throat and 27,68 mm inner rim.
To give another example , the Griego 2 have a 0,291 throat , and a 27,30 inner rim .

So , i suggest that before to move to a size like Schilke 59 (0,296 / 28,52 mm , that in my opinion can be an "enough big" bass trbn mpc ) , might be a good idea to stay around a 58- sized mpcs for a while .


Regards
Giancarlo

A Schilke 58 can be a great starter bass trombone mouthpiece (I think better than the Bach 1½G for reasons beyond the throat and bore). I played one for about 10+ years before finally figuring out that my chops were limited by the inner diameter. High range was pretty good, and I might pull it out for pieces that double 2nd (big band) like, "Don't Be That Way" or "Sing, Sing, Sing," but my low range started suffering after switching from 3rd to bass full time.

To the op:

Based on what you said, it's possible you found the right rim diameter (or something close to it) for your embouchure with the Yeo. If the rest of the piece doesn't jive with what you're planning to play bass trombone on, or the sound in your head, you might find it beneficial to have a lesson with Doug Elliott.

[dukesboneman]

The 1 1/2G was THE Standard for years. And it`s still a great mouthpiece.
The "Bigger is Better" route is not always the best.
I have 3 Bass Mouthpieces I use, but I find I almost always go to the Schilke 58.
I like the sound I get, seems to me to be more focused and have more core than the 1 1/2G
It`s also, again for me, more even top to bottom on the horn.
It`s rare that you get a gig where you only play in the low range.
If the mouthpiece is too big you`ll be flopping around in the upper range with no core or stability.
I`ve heard that more than once.
You`re still in high school, use a mouthpiece like the 1 1/G or a 58 that gives you the best sound and control thru-out the entire horn

[imsevimse]

The 1 1/2G was THE Standard for years. And it`s still a great mouthpiece.
The "Bigger is Better" route is not always the best....

I would say "bigger the better" is a real bad mouthpiece advice to anyone. "Use the mouthpiece that makes it essiest for you you to play the register you want to play and also with the sound you are after" is a better advice.

/Tom

[LIBrassCo]

https://www.librassco.com/bass-trombone

Check out the 700 with a B3 shank, I think it'd be what you're after.

[harrisonreed]

FWIW, as a tenor player the thing I was looking for in my bass mouthpiece wasn't about "moving up" to a larger rim ID, but getting a backbore that let me control the bass. A 2G can be great, especially one that has a throat and backbore that fit your playing.

[elmsandr]

So, here’s the thing.., you’re young. Buy the mouthpiece that is probably too big. Play it for a while. Practice like the dickens for a long time on it. Perform around on it. Somewhere in this journey you will discover that it was made by and for a professional player who had more hours counting rests on stage than total hours you’ve had on the horn to date. And it was made to play and work with a big hall and one of the biggest orchestras on the planet.

Your needs will not be the same as his. The equipment needs may be different to. But this is the time for you to learn that. And there are great things to learn from all ‘signature’ mouthpieces.

Full disclosure, I have a Yeo in the horn on the stand right now. I’m playing on it daily. Sometimes this lives in my case as a mouthpiece for when I forget my little gear bag. I sound better and more controlled on smaller pieces. I need to buy another piece from DE a bit smaller than my current one.

We really need to normalize the 2G again.

Cheers,
Andy

[TromboneWill]

If the mouthpiece is too big you`ll be flopping around in the upper range with no core or stability.
I`ve heard that more than once.
You`re still in high school, use a mouthpiece like the 1 1/G or a 58 that gives you the best sound and control thru-out the entire horn

The Yeo works for me for what I want right now, I am not saying it is the only mouthpiece I am ever going to want right now. It has given me the ability to improve aspects of my playing I wanted to approve, and yes, I know very well my high range on this piece is taking a beating due to it, though I’ve only used the Yeo for an hour or so, we’ll see what time does to it.

I apologize if it wasn’t clear enough, but I’m not in high school, I’m currently enrolled at a music school for college in a music major, and while it’s not specifically a trombone performance major, I will still be following the same path as a trombone performance major, private lessons, and playing in the ensembles.

I do plan on buying another mouthpiece that gives better control in the mid-high range, but for now, the Yeo works amazingly for me in the mid-low ranges.

[harrisonreed]

If the mouthpiece is too big you`ll be flopping around in the upper range with no core or stability.
I`ve heard that more than once.
You`re still in high school, use a mouthpiece like the 1 1/G or a 58 that gives you the best sound and control thru-out the entire horn

I apologize if it wasn’t clear enough, but I’m not in high school, I’m currently enrolled at a music school for college in a music major, and while it’s not specifically a trombone performance major, I will still be following the same path as a trombone performance major, private lessons, and playing in the ensembles.

I do plan on buying another mouthpiece that gives better control in the mid-high range, but for now, the Yeo works amazingly for me in the mid-low ranges.

If you are serious about it, you should be trying out everything you can, in as many rooms as you can, with good ears in the room with you, and keep asking your teacher for advice.

Your initial post was basically "what do I need to get through college?"

You should be asking, "what is my current setup getting me in the school ensembles? What does the ensemble need from me? What have I tried that gives different positives, and what is the difference between the two?"