TromboneChat

It’s interesting to me what Alexa can find and can’t find. This morning, I am listening to Curtis Fuller. I was only aware of Mr. Fuller through John Coltrane’s Blue Trane, which, some argue, was not Curtis’s finest appearance on record. (I was not a big fan of that recording, which I first heard in the early 70s.)

Alexa has been dredging up all kinds of other CF recordings, including what I’m listening to at this particular moment, The Opener, apparently Curtis’ only Blue Note recording as a leader. Nice stuff.

Apparently Curtis is still around. Has anybody heard him recently, that is, pre-Covid?

Haven't heard lately. I think he's teaching in one of the Carolinas and I heard he had some health challenges. I love Curtis' playing. I really enjoyed his solo on "Blue Lawson" from his record New Trombone. I have my students transcribe that one.

I don't know much about his whereabouts, but one of my favorite recordings of his is Besame Mucho, from his South American Cookin' album. It was one of the first Curtis tracks I heard and I remember being fascinated at how it grooved and how unique his quality of sound was.

I've heard people criticize his playing on Blue Train plenty of times, especially during my undergrad. I think it's important to keep in mind context when listening back to many of these now famous recordings. When Blue Train was recorded, Curtis was 23 years old, which is so young! This isn't to say you HAVE to like it, of course everyone has preferences, but I think I have heard a lot of undue criticisms of a musician who was hanging with some of the heaviest musicians to ever live. Imagine trying to take a chorus after Coltrane...

Denis DiBlasio has a great story about talking to Curtis Fuller about the Blue Train session, where he basically talks about how Curtis felt that criticism of his playing while being asked to sightread complex changes that he had never seen before was unfair.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZV3q3YYlHk

Anyway, I love Curtis's playing, and I dig a lot of his albums. Check out the album "Cabin In The Sky", featuring Curtis backed by a full studio orchestra. Beautiful playing and beautiful arrangements. I love this tune in particular called "Old Ship of Zion".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tu54i50opg

Redthunder wrote: ↑Wed May 27, 2020 12:44 pm I've heard people criticize his playing on Blue Train plenty of times, especially during my undergrad. I think it's important to keep in mind context when listening back to many of these now famous recordings. When Blue Train was recorded, Curtis was 23 years old, which is so young! This isn't to say you HAVE to like it, of course everyone has preferences, but I think I have heard a lot of undue criticisms of a musician who was hanging with some of the heaviest musicians to ever live. Imagine trying to take a chorus after Coltrane...

Denis DiBlasio has a great story about talking to Curtis Fuller about the Blue Train session, where he basically talks about how Curtis felt that criticism of his playing while being asked to sightread complex changes that he had never seen before was unfair.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZV3q3YYlHk

Anyway, I love Curtis's playing, and I dig a lot of his albums. Check out the album "Cabin In The Sky", featuring Curtis backed by a full studio orchestra. Beautiful playing and beautiful arrangements. I love this tune in particular called "Old Ship of Zion".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tu54i50opg

Curtis Fuller is not on my list of great jazz trombonist. But reading this gives me a bit more prospective on his earlier recordings. Something fo me to reexamine for sure.

Giant bones 80 with Kai Winding is worth a listen

I'm surprised at all this criticism I'm seeing for the first time of Curtis on Blue Train. I think it's a landmark incredible album and everyone on the album absolutely crushes of course that's just my opinion and I am a huge Curtis fan and have a picture of him behind me on the wall right now. Could list a ton of albums where Curtis blows my mind with his sound time and feel but I'll limit to three you HAVE to listen to Soul Trombone, Sonny's Crib, Two Bones (him and Slide). Honestly him and Conrad Herwig are my two favorite trombonists of all time. I'm borderline offended someone thinks he wasn't incredible on Blue Train but people have different tastes. I will note though that I've seen interviews where Michael Dease said that Fuller's playing on Bluetrain made him want to play the trombone in the first place the album is legendary and I would include Curtis as being part of that.

I would also like to mention Curtis does not sound the same as he did when he was young as he lost a lung to cancer he seems to have quite a bit of health issues now I recently seen a video of him in the hospital with Benny Golson visiting. I am praying he stays healthy and safe during this corona virus pandemic. Also speaking of Benny Golson Bluesette by Curtis Fuller is a must check out in my mind the biggest album of his career but thats debatable I'd also say check out The Other Side of Benny Golson a great record by Golson with Curtis on it.

I love Curtis playing on Blue Trane. Cabin in the Sky is great. The record with Kay Winding is also great.
The first time I heard Curtis I did not like his sound, But after some time I changed my oppinion, he did grow on me.

Wow, I`m really surprised at the bashing off Curtis` playing. Curtis Fuller is one off the Giants that has influenced so many of the major players on the scene today. Steve Davis, David Gibson, Michael Dease and so many more have Curtis in there sound. I wonder how many of you could play a better solos sight reading the changes on the Blue Train Tunes.
Before retiring and moving I had over 80 some albums and CD`s with Curtis Fuller on them. He`s an incredible player with a gorgeous sound and approach that`s all his own. I think that before really criticizing his playing and knowing only one or 2 recordings , please due a little more listening and research

dukesboneman wrote: ↑Thu Jun 04, 2020 6:56 am Wow, I`m really surprised at the bashing off Curtis` playing. Curtis Fuller is one off the Giants that has influenced so many of the major players on the scene today. Steve Davis, David Gibson, Michael Dease and so many more have Curtis in there sound. I wonder how many of you could play a better solos sight reading the changes on the Blue Train Tunes.
Before retiring and moving I had over 80 some albums and CD`s with Curtis Fuller on them. He`s an incredible player with a gorgeous sound and approach that`s all his own. I think that before really criticizing his playing and knowing only one or 2 recordings , please due a little more listening and research

I'm sorry if you've taken offense, but he's just hasn't beem my cup of tea. I'm not a big Uribe Green or Bill Watrous fan either, which i know is sacrilege to most trombonists.

We all have different tastes. And honestly i don't anyone really bashed him on this thread.

Thrawn22 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 04, 2020 9:51 pm

dukesboneman wrote: ↑Thu Jun 04, 2020 6:56 am Wow, I`m really surprised at the bashing off Curtis` playing.

I'm sorry if you've taken offense, but he's just hasn't been my cup of tea. I'm not a big Uribe Green or Bill Watrous fan either, which i know is sacrilege to most trombonists.

We all have different tastes. And honestly i don't anyone really bashed him on this thread.

I certainly don't see any "bashing" either.

As for me, I'm an older guy, and I'll take Urbie Green any day - and Dick Nash and Frank Rosolino and Carl Fontana and J.J. Johnson and Kai Winding and so many others. Our world is richer because of their contributions to our music. We (and they) all have good days and not-so-good days. There's no point in bashing anyone!

Thrawn22 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 04, 2020 9:51 pm
I'm sorry if you've taken offense, but he's just hasn't beem my cup of tea. I'm not a big Uribe Green or Bill Watrous fan either, which i know is sacrilege to most trombonists.

We all have different tastes. And honestly i don't anyone really bashed him on this thread.

I am not trying to put you down Thawn, but I am curious, what trombone players do you like?

dukesboneman wrote: ↑Thu Jun 04, 2020 6:56 am Wow, I`m really surprised at the bashing off Curtis` playing. Curtis Fuller is one off the Giants that has influenced so many of the major players on the scene today. Steve Davis, David Gibson, Michael Dease and so many more have Curtis in there sound. I wonder how many of you could play a better solos sight reading the changes on the Blue Train Tunes.
Before retiring and moving I had over 80 some albums and CD`s with Curtis Fuller on them. He`s an incredible player with a gorgeous sound and approach that`s all his own. I think that before really criticizing his playing and knowing only one or 2 recordings , please due a little more listening and research

That was my first thought ,but I feel like the lesson here is that people are allowed to have opinions and not be a fan of something but you have to acknowledge the ability and impact of Curtis on the trombone. You can not be into Sonny Rollins but you have to acknowledge he was a great saxophonist that changed jazz and this is no different with Curtis.

Basbasun wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 4:01 am

Thrawn22 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 04, 2020 9:51 pm
I'm sorry if you've taken offense, but he's just hasn't beem my cup of tea. I'm not a big Uribe Green or Bill Watrous fan either, which i know is sacrilege to most trombonists.

We all have different tastes. And honestly i don't anyone really bashed him on this thread.

I am not trying to put you down Thawn, but I am curious, what trombone players do you like?

For jazz, it's mostly in a bigband setting because combo stuff gets boring to me after a while. So wiyh thar being said, I'm a HUGE Stan Kenton fan. That puts Rosolino and Fontana towards the top of my list. I really dig Slide Hamptons playing. I can dig J.J., but he's not really my go to guy . A guy I've been really digging is Archie LeCoque. He played with Kenton in the late 50s and is on the "Standards in Silhouette " album.

My high school didn't have a jazz band, and i learned trombone during the summer of my freshman year from my band director, who was a clarinet player. Up until my first year of college my concept of jazz or improve was from Glenn Miller and James Pankow. My first experience with real jazz playing was at college and the director was all about Kenton. Up until then, my concepts of trombone and trombone sound derived from other instruments (mostly string or orchestral).

I primarily listen to rock music but change up what i listen to when i practice. I only knew only one player in all of my time playing that was an advocate of Curtis Fuller. It was mostly J.J. , Frank, Carl, Urbie, Mcchesney, Andy Martin (ugh) that my buddies listened too.

My classical tastes are pretty narrow. Ralph Sauer is the top of the heap for me. Other legit guys hold an interest for me, but Ralph the dude i want to be.

Bassbone i approach from a classical perspective when playing jazz and vice versa. George Roberts is the man, but Kenny Shroyer is a bit of a turn on for me than him. Don't dig Reichenbach, Taylor or Teele.

I really like Curtis Fuller's sound. He always had a fat, mellow, and at times melancholy tone and he swings like crazy. Every player has/had their thing, and they're all different. For me as a listener, Curtis Fuller is one of those players that you can immediately identify as him. That says a lot to me. All of the great players are like that.

I want to resurrect this thread.

Curtis is the man.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tw-C3ROp-Rg

He shreds here - I really think his solo is the best of all the horn players on this video, and that says A LOT considering who they are... And besides a great sound and fantastic melodies, he plays with SO much groove, and his ability to both stretch and dig in with the time is amazing. He plays the trombone with INTENT!!!!!

Agree! I love to hear a trombone sound like a trombone. He plays with attitude and - as you stated - intent! I never get tired of hearing that kind of trombone sound. Thanks for sharing!

This has always been one of my favorite Curtis pieces.
His tone and approach are just perfect for the piece.
You can almost feel a club late at night , last set in his playing

Curtis' biggest contribution (in my opinion) is his sound, but even more so his time-feel. Sometimes J.J. gets rushy...I love J.J....but Curtis always sounds so great with his time that I can look past some other things.

i've always loved Curtis. I got Blue Train and Blakey's Caravan on the same day. I learned a lot of vocabulary from those albums. His sound, sense of rhythm, and his ideas (or motivic development) just immediately spoke to me. No lie, I almost lost a gig because I "sounded too much like Curtis" - the gig was mostly traditional jazz and big band stuff so that was understandable. I've incorporated a lot of people into my playing, but Curtis has had an outsize influence. The guy was in JJ's shadow to hear the critics tell it, but he forged his own path and became just as important of an influence on jazz trombonists.

Another favorite modern guy of mine, Steve Davis, is coming out of Curtis in a lot of his sound and approach. Whenever I hear curtis in someone's playing, it just makes me happy.

Someone call him up and see how he’s doing.

ExZacLee wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:17 pm Another favorite modern guy of mine, Steve Davis, is coming out of Curtis in a lot of his sound and approach. Whenever I hear curtis in someone's playing, it just makes me happy.

ExZacLee!

Just watched this now, Nick Finzer breaks down a Curtis solo on The Stroller with Benny Golson. Very interesting and useful transcription and analysis! How on earth you play like this at speed I have no clue, but it's good stuff!