TromboneChat

Hi, I am a trumpet player that just picked up a valve trombone, and I used to play lower brass years ago and I always played on a Bach 12C, what would be the best mouthpiece for going back-and-forth from trumpet to trombone without losing my trumpet chops and giving me the best sound on the trombone?

What is the smallest small shank mouthpiece for a tenor trombone?

Thanks for the help
John

I have a Schilke 40; 22.53mm cup diameter.
When I was teaching general brass instruments, I used a Bach 1 trumpet mouthpiece in a large bore trumpet.

Cheers

Stewbones

All tbn mouthpieces are relatively similar, if the point of comparison is a tpt rim... the 'best sound' and 'smallest diameter' are also not guaranteed to coincide! But the 12C is probably a reasonable starting point.

On the less subjective questions, the smallest tbn diameters I've seen listed are the Schilke 40 models (around 22.5mm). If 'the smaller the better' turns out to work well for you, the Bach 19 might be of interest. It's one of their smallest rims, but a moderately deep V-cup. I have one in a drawer somewhere, and given the tiny rim the tone is surprisingly full. I can imagine it working well to smooth out a bass tpt or small bore valve tbn.

If you had success with a 12C before, why would you want something different now? You're already familiar with it, and it is Bach's "... best selling model for all-around playing.", according to Bach's website https://www.bachbrass.com/application/f ... 89_web.pdf .

Thank you for all the responses I appreciate it

Trumpet and trombone mouthpieces are so different that even the biggest trumpet mouthpiece and the smallest trombone mouthpiece are really far apart.
On trumpet I use Warburtons (Bach 6 equivalent) and Marcinkiewicz (Bach 10-1/2 equivalent) mouthpieces and I use a Symington 1.5 on bass trombone, my main issue is not with mouthpiece sizes but with air concepts.
Find something that works for each instrument and practice both.

“ my main issue is not with mouthpiece sizes but with air concepts”.
Interesting for me: I am a trumpet player...and a poor trombone doubler! Could you elaborate the difference in air concept?
Many thanks.
PS: by the way I use a Schilke 40 mouthpiece or a Bach 22 with my tenor bone and obviously the problem is not the mouthpieces but me!

Why obviously? Those are tiny trombone mouthpieces.

Because, as I am mainly a trumpet player, I assume it is easier (better?) to play with a “tiny” mp than a too big one but may be am I wrong... I am an occasional doubler.

Thank you for the suggestions, I am mainly a Trumpet Player (Schilke S32HDG Bb) and I was gifted a valve trombone because I mentioned I used to play one years ago (insert over 40 years ago) And my friends bought me one.

In my practice session yesterday, yes, I am one of those weird people that loves to practice I was going back and forth between the two instruments and it went well. My friend gave me a Bach 12C and a Martin which I don't see any numbers on but it is close to a Bach 12C with a slightly gentler bite than the Bach, both mouthpieces sound great in the horn and they allow me to go from one to the other.

After playing the Trombone for a few songs and picking up the Trumpet the GR66M (Bach MV3C size) feels a tad small. But since I will be playing one or the other (I am NOT James Morrison!) this is going to work.

Thanks again for the help!

All the best,
John

Voltrane wrote: ↑Sat Nov 28, 2020 1:31 am Because, as I am mainly a trumpet player, I assume it is easier (better?) to play with a “tiny” mp than a too big one but may be am I wrong... I am an occasional doubler.

In some situations, on multiple instruments that are close in size, it's beneficial to use the same rim size and it can work well. But If you going to change rims - you have to going from trumpet to trombone - a totally uncharacteristic mouthpiece size is probably going to give equally uncharacteristic results.

OK. So what size do you advise to be "characteristic" ? A 12C for instance (was delivered with the bone)? Bigger?
Thanks

Without seeing you play I wouldn't want to guess, but people do use 12C's and sound good. I have never even heard of anybody successfully using a Schilke 40 or Bach 22.

Ok. Thanks. I will try a 12C.
Regards.

I play 16.8mm size trumpet/flugelhorn/soprano pieces, 25.4mm on tenor and 28.7mm on bass. Years ago I tried both 12C and 15C, too small for me.

Voltrane wrote: ↑Sat Nov 28, 2020 12:22 am “ my main issue is not with mouthpiece sizes but with air concepts”.
Interesting for me: I am a trumpet player...and a poor trombone doubler! Could you elaborate the difference in air concept?

To be true, I am also a pool trombone doubler, but what I wanted to say was that I have no trouble switch between rim sizes. Also, when I switch from trumpet to trombone, my embouchure is working right away on the trombone.
The other way (from trombone to trumpet), the switch is very quick, but I always want to use too much air.

And by the way, I play trumpet for 25 years and bass trombone for hardly 2 years.

EDIT: And as Doug says, using a "small trombone mouthpiece" that is actually too small for trombone and still bigger than a trumpet mouthpiece will only lead to a bad trombone sound and the feel will still be different than on trumpet. "Use the right tool for the job"

Ok. Thanks.
You know, when you come from trumpet, the sizes of the trombone mouthpieces are quite impressive...That's why I tried to play an "as small as possible" a mouthpiece (but still a bone mp)...
But I fully agree that the target is to make the best trombone sound!
My trumpet mouthpiece size is also 16,8mm. So I will have a look at the 25mm sized mp (my bone is a tenor).
Thanks again for your help.
Regards

Anecdotal personal experience here, so give it all the weight it merits (not so much), but the embouchures of the two instruments are so different I haven't found that they interfere with each other to any great degree, as long as I can keep up with a reasonable amount of practice on whichever I have consequential playing engagements coming up soonest. Given that caveat:

trumpet - 1-1/2C
tenor - 5GS
bass - 2G

My experience has been that learning the trombone double has benefited my trumpet playing by making me have more air available but *not* with tension. The same things that make trombone playing successful, and very audibly so, are helpful on trumpet in ways that might not be so obvious if uncorrected, but make playing more relaxed and enjoyable. All that extra air though on the other side of the mouthpiece is still part of the resonant air column if I am relaxed. The breadth and ease of sound is proof enough for me. Have fun doubling.

I use an 15B4 on trumpet and a 6.5Al or 5GS on trombone.

“my main issue is not with mouthpiece sizes but with air concepts”.

When starting on trombone after 15 years of trumpet, my main problem was that on trumpet I, apparently, used the resistance of the instrument to control the flow/amount of air. Having a trombone with almost no resistance at all in the instrument, you have to adapt the concept of using air, and try to be more efficient with your air and creation of sound. It's hard for me to describe the feeling, though.

My main axe is trumpet, but I occasionally play trombone/Flugabone. I'd advise against the Chasons Trombone mouthpiece for trumpet players, it just felt unnatural, and had better results with a real trombone mouthpiece. My favorite mouthpiece is the Bach MV11C, but I'd find a mouthpiece that has a fairly small diameter, comfortable rim, and medium-shallow cup to start. Austin Custom Brass, or Warburton may be able to help you out.