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My new Dennis Wick mouthpiece came with a lead warning from the state of California . Should I be worried or are all mouthpieces the same?

From Wikipedia:

Lead content in brass is supposed to help machineability.

"In October 1999 the California State Attorney General sued 13 key manufacturers and distributors over lead content. In laboratory tests, state researchers found the average brass key, new or old, exceeded the California Proposition 65 limits by an average factor of 19, assuming handling twice a day.[13] In April 2001 manufacturers agreed to reduce lead content to 1.5%, or face a requirement to warn consumers about lead content. Keys plated with other metals are not affected by the settlement, and may continue to use brass alloys with higher percentage of lead content."

I would assume any plating would negate this. They're talking about house keys.

Most mouthpieces use a brass alloy that has 2% lead in it. It makes it easier to machine.

RoHS rules state that you have to divulge if the bulk of your material has over a certain percentage of hazardous materials (1000 PPM for some or 100 PPM for others).

Your chance of getting lead poisoning from a mouthpiece with intact plating is nearly zero. If there is no plating on the mouthpiece (bare brass) you would have to have it on your face for hours a day year in and year out to get a detectable amount (not even a hazardous amount) of lead.

Denis makes all his mouthpieces in the UK, don't worry about it

Nothing has changed.
California has had that requirement for years.
Brass has always had a small amount of lead in it. Even "lead free" brass has some, just a smaller amount. I think Yamaha has switched to it. I would if it was available, but so far I haven't been able to buy it in the sizes I use.

Considering how much direct contact I have with raw brass, one of these days I'm going to get tested just to see if it"s any actual concern at all - but I don't think it is.

Epidemiologist hat on for a moment -

BGuttman wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:21 ama detectable amount (not even a hazardous amount) of lead.

There is no recognized safe level of lead exposure. Any detectable amount is considered a hazardous amount.

That said, less lead exposure is obviously less harmful than more, and the harm to adults with fully-developed brains is less than to children. So don't give your toddlers raw brass, I guess.

tctb wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:06 am My new Dennis Wick mouthpiece came with a lead warning from the state of California . Should I be worried or are all mouthpieces the same?

Just so it's clear, any brass (with a tiny amount of lead) is under a layer of silver plate, and possibly gold plate over that as well. Unless all the silver plate has been lost where you contact the mouthpiece, you won't even touch the brass.

spencercarran wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 2:21 pm Epidemiologist hat on for a moment -

BGuttman wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:21 ama detectable amount (not even a hazardous amount) of lead.

There is no recognized safe level of lead exposure. Any detectable amount is considered a hazardous amount.

That said, less lead exposure is obviously less harmful than more, and the harm to adults with fully-developed brains is less than to children. So don't give your toddlers raw brass, I guess.

The question is whether contact (realistically non-contact in the case of a silverplated mouthpiece) creates any "exposure" at all.

And as I learned in researching sources, even "lead-free" plumbing brass DOES have lead in it, just less.

Doug Elliott wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 4:07 pm

spencercarran wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 2:21 pm Epidemiologist hat on for a moment -

There is no recognized safe level of lead exposure. Any detectable amount is considered a hazardous amount.

That said, less lead exposure is obviously less harmful than more, and the harm to adults with fully-developed brains is less than to children. So don't give your toddlers raw brass, I guess.

The question is whether contact (realistically non-contact in the case of a silverplated mouthpiece) creates any "exposure" at all.

And as I learned in researching sources, even "lead-free" plumbing brass DOES have lead in it, just less.

I believe there have been several repair techs, brass mostly, that have been screened with NO significant levels of lead in their systems. Even after years of exposure through buffing, soldering, machining, etc.

So Me thinks it's a non-issue! Unless you directly ingest lead or lead containing products.

Doug Elliott wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 4:07 pmThe question is whether contact (realistically non-contact in the case of a silverplated mouthpiece) creates any "exposure" at all.

As long as you're not eating your mouthpieces, probably not much!

I can understand Doug's concern. He spends a lot of time machining the alloy and breathing in dust. That's way more exposure than it simply contacting skin.

Dust exposure while machining is more of a concern. Various respirators exist and are not, in the grand scheme of things, prohibitively expensive. If you were employing someone to do that sort of metalworking you would be legally required to provide suitable PPE.

I asked my doctor to check my lead level. They said it was 4 and anything less than 20 is normal. And I work with lead many hours a day, every day.

California's totally loopy Proposition 65 requires almost everything to be labeled as a threat to Californians "about their exposures to chemicals that cause cancer, birth defects or other reproductive harm" - and apparently life as we know it! I bought some things from Dillon Music (in New Jersey) last night, and noticed a Proposition 65 Notice on their Website (linked to the California Prop65 page).
https://www.p65warnings.ca.gov/

Apparently, even though Dillon is in New Jersey, they are obligated to warn all their customers, some of whom reside in California.

Here is the page that deals with "Lead and Lead Compounds":
https://www.p65warnings.ca.gov/chemical ... -compounds

Is the lead in plated brass mouthpieces - or brass instruments in general - a threat to your health and life?
Per California law - yes. Per any reputable scientist - NO!

Here in the Golden State, almost every business has a Prop. 65 warning on the door, and a lot of things you buy have warnings on the label. They're so ubiquitous that people have become blind to them.

A lot of them are pretty vague, too:

WARNING
This Facility Contains Chemicals Known To The State Of California To Cause Cancer And Birth Defects Or Other Reproductive Harm.
Such Chemicals Are Also Present In This Area And In Consumer Items and Other Products Sold Provided And Used Here.

Casting a rather wide net, eh?

JohnL wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 2:52 pm Here in the Golden State, almost every business has a Prop. 65 warning on the door, and a lot of things you buy have warnings on the label. They're so ubiquitous that people have become blind to them.

A lot of them are pretty vague, too:

WARNING
This Facility Contains Chemicals Known To The State Of California To Cause Cancer And Birth Defects Or Other Reproductive Harm.
Such Chemicals Are Also Present In This Area And In Consumer Items and Other Products Sold Provided And Used Here.

Casting a rather wide net, eh?

I read that there only need to be a 1 out 100000 chance of getting cancer from something for it to be classified as "dangerous'.

If you leave CA, the effects are lessened. Californians are simply more susceptible to cancer.

Apparently now they have warnings on coffee. Reminds me of how my grandmother used to claim that french presses somehow cause cancer.

I think to be perfectly safe we should all wear two sets of suspenders, and a belt, when we play anywhere, too.
And a mask, while actively blowing into the mouthpiece.
Why take unnecessary chances!

I recently bought some organic molasses that came with a prop65 warning on it, in whole foods.

I'm well aware that molasses is highly heated and chemically altered by that heat, and the Maillard reaction creates free radicals and carcinogens. But that's what makes food taste good. Guess we're all going to die from prop65.

It's one of those things where once you overuse it, you might as well not use it at all.

You'll also notice warnings for anything that contains vinyl, like a seat cover, or even a wallet etc. As long as you don't eat them, you should be fine. I remember seeing a warning on a piece of plastic molding I got to stick on my car.