TromboneChat

I may be asking about something that doesn’t exist but is there a mouthpiece that has a bass sized rim with a shallow cup and a small shank? I switch between tenor and bass when I play frequently and I just loose the focus of my sound when I go between the two but mostly on the bass to tenor switch. Ive been trying to resolve it without getting a new mouthpiece for a while now and haven't felt any significant gains in focus. For context I play on a Bach 1.5G and Benge 6.5AL-S mainly.

I regularly make things like this for custom orders, yes.

Doug Elliott.

It can be done, but part of the sound of an instrument is the backbone and cup depth of the mouthpiece (in my experience) so don’t go too extreme with changing both, just enough towards which ever is your preferred horn (bass or tenor).

I use a Chason 6 1/2 rim on a trumpet bore and the cup is super shallow, good enough to fool my middle school students!

Doug Elliott can make such a mouthpiece for you. He can also offer advice on what combinations are reasonable.

Ordinarily that's all stock stuff for me, there are quite a few options that all play very well.
Right now I don't have much of anything in stock. I'll be catching up soon, I hope.

If you play a Yamaha 321 Euph or one of the older Besson Euphs you need a small shank with a larger cup. For that matter, the old Conn 14H bass of 100 years ago used a small shank mouthpiece.

Doug Elliott

The switch isn’t extreme, how much practice do you do on both?

Vegasbound wrote: ↑Tue Nov 09, 2021 1:47 pm The switch isn’t extreme, how much practice do you do on both?

Was going to say the same thing. If you're not spending hours at first each day on each instrument you're wasting your time.

I had a Bach 3C small shank. It was hopeless, made the higher partials very flat. I could not use it with the King 3b I had back then. I gave it away.

/Tom

I use a Doug Elliot with a 3 size rim and small cup, and a Bach 4C in professional settings. I tried the 6.5 thing for a long time, the larger rims made everything easier and better.

If you want a stopgap solution, Kelly makes a 1.5G-sized bass piece in small shank.

I play these on alto and all varieties of tenor.

Doug Elliott's system is by far the best way to do this in my experience. You might find you need to go a little deeper in the tenor cup than you might think. But depending on the instrument you're playing you might not.

Okay so I guess the resounding answer is that Doug Elliot may have a good solution for my problem. So I guess this moves to what combination of parts is a good set up because modular mouthpieces are a new concept to me.

For tenor, use a MB 108 E and E2 shank. (Just a suggestion. A call to Doug can get you close to what you need, if not exactly.)

I have an Elliott LB114 with an LB D and D3 that plays absurdly well.

NamePlate wrote: ↑Tue Nov 09, 2021 6:31 pm Okay so I guess the resounding answer is that Doug Elliot may have a good solution for my problem. So I guess this moves to what combination of parts is a good set up because modular mouthpieces are a new concept to me.

I do an XT106N with C+ cup and D3 shank on small bore (3B), and an XT106N with A cup and alto A shank on alto.

You can also do the XT G and G8 shank on large tenor.

The rim number will depend on what bass piece you are used to, though you will very likely want to use the narrow "N" profile if you choose the XT series. On bass series (SB,MB, LB, etc) the rim is narrow by default. For me, the 2G size (106N) is the ultimate goldilocks zone for rims. It's the smallest bass or largest tenor rim anyone is likely to use, but it absolutely works for any trombone I use. Sure, if I only played bass, I'd probably go larger, but I don't. Anything smaller on tenor or alto actually reduces my total range, particularly on the high end.

Your idea is pretty common now, and has been gaining traction for a long time now. Griego and Greg Black are also all about making mouthpieces like this.

WGWTR180 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 09, 2021 2:34 pm
Was going to say the same thing. If you're not spending hours at first each day on each instrument you're wasting your time.

Not everyone has hours every day to commit to playing on a “standard” mouthpiece size just because. Especially when this solution sounds just as good or better for many players…

Redthunder wrote: ↑Tue Nov 09, 2021 8:09 pm

WGWTR180 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 09, 2021 2:34 pm
Was going to say the same thing. If you're not spending hours at first each day on each instrument you're wasting your time.

Not everyone has hours every day to commit to playing on a “standard” mouthpiece size just because. Especially when this solution sounds just as good or better for many players…

Yeah, the "standard sizes" are terrible for me, and I do have hours a day to practice. 100% agree.

I have a Giardinelli 1GM.
It`s a large shank but it has a 1 1/2-ish rim with a Very shallow cup
A guy I knew years ago had a 1 1/2G rim with a 6 1/2AL cup for his 78H

NamePlate wrote: ↑Tue Nov 09, 2021 6:31 pm Okay so I guess the resounding answer is that Doug Elliot may have a good solution for my problem. So I guess this moves to what combination of parts is a good set up because modular mouthpieces are a new concept to me.

Talk to Doug

Redthunder wrote: ↑Tue Nov 09, 2021 8:09 pm

WGWTR180 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 09, 2021 2:34 pm
Was going to say the same thing. If you're not spending hours at first each day on each instrument you're wasting your time.

Not everyone has hours every day to commit to playing on a “standard” mouthpiece size just because. Especially when this solution sounds just as good or better for many players…

True so let's just jump right to a custom mouthpiece. Why not.

Redthunder wrote: ↑Tue Nov 09, 2021 8:09 pm

WGWTR180 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 09, 2021 2:34 pm
Was going to say the same thing. If you're not spending hours at first each day on each instrument you're wasting your time.

Not everyone has hours every day to commit to playing on a “standard” mouthpiece size just because. Especially when this solution sounds just as good or better for many players…

In fact, this is what a specialized mouthpiece can help. It’d take me forever to warm up on all the horns. Same rim cuts that transition time way way down (to zero in some cases).

Kdanielsen wrote: ↑Wed Nov 10, 2021 5:31 am

Redthunder wrote: ↑Tue Nov 09, 2021 8:09 pm

Not everyone has hours every day to commit to playing on a “standard” mouthpiece size just because. Especially when this solution sounds just as good or better for many players…

In fact, this is what a specialized mouthpiece can help. It’d take me forever to warm up on all the horns. Same rim cuts that transition time way way down (to zero in some cases).

Agreed but a personal choice for sure.

NamePlate wrote: ↑Tue Nov 09, 2021 6:31 pm Okay so I guess the resounding answer is that Doug Elliot may have a good solution for my problem. So I guess this moves to what combination of parts is a good set up because modular mouthpieces are a new concept to me.

Doug provides a free on line consult, watches you play a little, and can advise on parts. Generous returns policy too. I did my session with him using an iPhone - I’m in England.

Doug is the man for this. It can not hurt to talk to him. He does not push his products at all. He doesn’t have to. The ability to fine tune your setup without buying a bunch of mouthpieces is great.

I guess I will be calling Doug when I get the chance to after college dies down a little bit