TromboneChat

Hi!
I have been recommended to move from a Schilke 50 to something a little bit bigger, specifically, to Bach 5GS, to continue with my courses. What would you recommend me, continue with the Schilke that corresponds (I'm not sure what it would be ... 51?? 51C???), try something else equivalent to Bach 5GS, or directly the Bach? I thought about buying directly the Bach 5GS but if I come from Schilke.... I also wanted to try Denis Wick... I don't know. I'm open to any suggestion (no limited budget).
Thanks for your answers and recommendations!

With the Schilke 50 as your baseline, Doug Elliott's chart found here is a good starting place.
http://www.dougelliottmouthpieces.com/s ... chart.html

As a longtime Schilke 51B player who tried many different options, jumping to Doug's LT series was an epiphany and an option for you to consider.

First off, what don't you (or your teacher) like about the 50? Answering this for yourself is key. After that...

Is this for large bore? If so, why the 5GS? The 5GL is, for me, a better piece since it has the large bore throat and backbore but isn't that much deeper (it's based on a Mt Vernon 5G that's shallower then current production). The 5GS has the same backbore and throat as the 6½AL. If small (medium?) bore, then the 5GS would be a fine step up. For jazz there's also the 5 with the small bore throat and backbore.

For Schilke, your closest match is likely the 51C4, though if you're playing high a lot, also consider the 51B. The regular 51 is actually deeper than a Bach 5G.

If budget is no issue, then a lesson with Doug Elliott (he's on this forum) should be in the cards. You never know when you find you need an even bigger diameter than a 5 for the best results.

To me, switching from a Schilke 50 to a Bach 5GS seems silly. The phrase "a little bigger" is interesting, because it's just that, 0.1mm (0.004 inches) bigger.

What's the purpose of this mouthpiece switch?

I'm always really hesitant to switch mouthpieces with students. Generally, I'll switch a young student from their 12C to a 6.5AL, but I also let them know there are many options out there and it's a rabbit hole that hard to climb out of once you're in. When I go deep down the rabbit hole I eventually ask myself, "is it the mouthpiece or do I just need to practice?"

As others have noted, without a clearer exposition of the reasons for a mouthpiece switch, it's hard for anyone to give much specific advice. There are many mouthpieces from many makers in that general size ballpark. Some of them are good, some are rubbish, some will work well for others but not for you. If you generally feel comfortable on the Schilke rims you could simply move up a size (51C4 or 51 as mentioned, but probably not 51B which has a shallower cup and tighter throat than the 50) and see how that feels.

JLivi wrote: ↑Wed Oct 05, 2022 9:17 am To me, switching from a Schilke 50 to a Bach 5GS seems silly. The phrase "a little bigger" is interesting, because it's just that, 0.1mm (0.004 inches) bigger.

The 5GS and the 50 do feel quite different from each other. Different rim shapes, different cup depths and backbores, etc. That difference in cup diameter is only a small part of the picture.

If you really must switch, I endorse the suggestion of a Schilke 51C4 (or perhaps the slightly larger Schilke 51) for large-bore trombone. Or contact Doug Elliott, who can give you a personalized recommendation. He will have just the right mouthpiece!

JLivi wrote: ↑Wed Oct 05, 2022 9:17 am To me, switching from a Schilke 50 to a Bach 5GS seems silly. The phrase "a little bigger" is interesting, because it's just that, 0.1mm (0.004 inches) bigger.

In reality, however, the difference is closer to ~.3mm (.01") between the 50 (or 6½A) and the 51[B/C4] (or 5 series). That's not that small of a difference with how sensitive our embouchure is; I myself could feel that.

There will also always be manufacturing inconsistencies, not to mention differences in how each make measures cup diameter. So take the published specs with a grain of salt and always go by feel. Speaking of...

To the OP:

You may love the rim shape of the Wick 5BL/BS. Or despise it. There's usually no middle ground. If you do love it in classic form, do also try one in the heritage blank. They respond quite differently due to mass distribution (the actual weight I hear is pretty close, if not the same).

Try what you can and use what works best for you and the horn.

Thank you all very much for your answers.
I am trying several mouthpieces from various manufacturers to see what I like best; obviously, I am aware that the mouthpiece "does not give happiness" but if my teacher suggests me to change the mouthpiece, I like to follow his advice, because for that I trust him, even if I have certain criteria; surely he has seen that there are issues of articulation, sound, etc. that a bigger mouthpiece, deeper, can favor (although the mouthpiece alone does not do the job for you: a good sound has to be trained, but the right mouthpiece helps the purpose...).
Thank you very much for your experience, I take note of everything and I write down Doug Elliott's contact to consult him about mouthpieces.
Best regards