12C - all the same specs ?

[Windmill]

Hi Everyone

Are all the 12C the same pieces in terms of specs (cup, Backbore, throat and diameter) ? Gewa, Bach, blessing, Jupiter... Or does each brand have their own little differences?

Thanks in advance.

[JohnL]

The latter, most assuredly.

Even within one manufacturer, there can be noticeable variation.

[dwn8ve]

Would probably help to think of the 12C label as a general guideline that they are roughly the same size. But like a size 10 shoe, not all are going to fit/feel the same.

[imsevimse]

Hi Everyone

Are all the 12C the same pieces in terms of specs (cup, Backbore, throat and diameter) ? Gewa, Bach, blessing, Jupiter... Or does each brand have their own little differences?

Thanks in advance.

No, they are not the same and can vary within the same brand too. I guess makers try to copy a Bach 12C mouthpiece but since the ones they copy from all are different the result also differ. I know for sure Bach 12C differs from Bach Mnt Vernon 12C. I also have experience from playing a Benge 12C for years. It also differs from a Bach 12C. You could say 12C's are close and "about" the same, but in reality when you try them they feel different.

/Tom

[BigBadandBass]

In short, no

[harrisonreed]

There are probably as many versions of just the Bach 12C as the number of years they have made it, multiplied by the number of machinists they had make them, multiplied by the number of weeks of production in a year.

Something like 47 billion, at least.

[BGuttman]

The problem is complicated by the Bach 12C being the default mouthpiece supplied with small bore horns for generations, so many suppliers, especially from "me too" countries, seem to think that the mouthpiece you supply with a new instrument should be called 12C, regardless of how it was made.

[Windmill]

Allright, thank you for your answers !

I recently found out that the Blessing 12c a friend lent me is working way better on my vocabell than my other regular mouthpiece. I want to get myself one, I found 2 Bach 12c for cheap... I'm gonna compare the blessing and the Bach, and will let you know if I experience some significant differences! Maybe in terms of rim shape or Backbore...

[Windmill]

So, for those interested...

I received the Bach and could compare with the Blessing. It does feel different and plays less good than the blessing on the Vocabell. The rim feels also more comfortable on the blessing, holding the lip inside better. I'm gonna stick to this one

[TromboneMonkey]

I agree the Blessing 12c is a great 12c, or at least the ones I've played have been.

The Marcinkiewicz 12 (no c) is another one of my favorites. It's shallower than a Bach 12, and similar volume to most Bach 12cs. I found the Marcinkiewicz 12c to be too shallow.

[mazman]

I have a Blessing 12c and a Bach 12c that are pretty much the same. I also have 3 6 1/2 ALs - 2 Bach and 1 Blessing -and to me, they are all the same. If you put a blindfold on me, I’d only be able to tell which you one was gold.

[harrisonreed]

Looking into the scan data that is available on 12C mouthpieces, it looks like where you'll feel the biggest difference is in the rim. Some of those designs have a rim countour that is flat and then bites sharply into the cup. Others are rounded. The worst looks like a mountain that angles up from the outer rim towards the inner rim, and then sharply dives off a cliff into the cup (so it's like all the pressure is focused on a tiny area around the rim).

[Posaunus]

Looking into the scan data that is available on 12C mouthpieces, it looks like where you'll feel the biggest difference is in the rim. Some of those designs have a rim countour that is flat and then bites sharply into the cup. Others are rounded. The worst looks like a mountain that angles up from the outer rim towards the inner rim, and then sharply dives off a cliff into the cup (so it's like all the pressure is focused on a tiny area around the rim).

More of a "cookie cutter" than the Lindberg CL pieces (which I do not find at all uncomfortable)?