TromboneChat

While the 51 has a lot of followers the 53 is rather obscure.. As i double on bass i like tenor mouthpieces with bigger id’s , but for some reason the 53 are rarely mentioned..One reason may be that the throatsize are minuscule for such a mouthpiece,but it should be a small matter to increase the bore size..Are the cupsize also small? …or ;are there other reason for its obscurity ?

Tbarh

Should have mentioned that i have never seen one in the wild .

I haven't played the 53 myself.

But... there are enough modern pieces with larger rim sizes that you just don't really need to worry about it, IMO.

Burgerbob wrote: ↑Sun Oct 29, 2023 11:15 am I haven't played the 53 myself.

But... there are enough modern pieces with larger rim sizes that you just don't really need to worry about it, IMO.

I have just about tried them all…Still curious about the 53..

I like the 53 in small shank, similar to a larger, more comfortable rim on a small shank Bach 5, or more comparatively a small shank Bach 3 though I've not tried one of those.
It seems best for .500-.508 horns (large sound from a 3BF for example) where the popular small shank 5gs is more balanced on medium bore imo.

Large shank standard 53 is a different story, however. It's just not very good into anything, even for someone that likes the small shank 53 in certain use cases.

The symphony series M5.3 is a lot better into large horns, but that's because it's completely different.

I stumbled on an (older?) large-shank Schilke 53. Cup I.D. ~25.4mm (1.0"); Throat 6.15mm (0.242"). Sort of a smaller 6½AL with a Schilke rim.

I don't play it; would be willing to part with it. I'm still a bit partial to my long-shank Schilke 51 with my Conn 88H.

MAliesch wrote: ↑Sun Oct 29, 2023 2:09 pm I like the 53 in small shank, similar to a larger, more comfortable rim on a small shank Bach 5, or more comparatively a small shank Bach 3 though I've not tried one of those.
It seems best for .500-.508 horns (large sound from a 3BF for example) where the popular small shank 5gs is more balanced on medium bore imo.

Large shank standard 53 is a different story, however. It's just not very good into anything, even for someone that likes the small shank 53 in certain use cases.

The symphony series M5.3 is a lot better into large horns, but that's because it's completely different.

So the cup are really shallow then, compared to similar big rim mouthpieces?

Posaunus wrote: ↑Sun Oct 29, 2023 2:37 pm I stumbled on an (older?) large-shank Schilke 53. Cup I.D. ~25.4mm (1.0"); Throat 6.15mm (0.242"). Sort of a smaller 6½AL with a Schilke rim.

I don't play it; would be willing to part with it. I'm still a bit partial to my long-shank Schilke 51 with my Conn 88H.

Hmm..Specs on the Schilke website says 26,2mm inner rim , throatsize ‘234 , but that may vary.. I have a theory that This piece is an older small shank piece that was made with a big rim.. All the small pieces has a ‘234 throat too.. So ; shallower than a Bach 5G ,then ?

I've played one - large(ish) rim width, shallow(ish) cup depth. Think a Schilke version of a 3GS (if there was such a thing). It seems to me that there was a teacher in the 70's who liked to recommend that mouthpiece to his Conn 88H-playing students (Florida based?). The wife of a former colleague studied trombone in that area at the time and had that mouthpiece - I borrowed her horn when mine was getting worked on for a short time in the 80's. It played fairly well, although it seemed strange at the time when most players were playing rims more in the "5" range, and cups in the "G" range. There are more players now who are using equipment closer to that. With the old longer shank, it works well in an Elkhart Conn.

Jim Scott

Tbarh wrote: ↑Sun Oct 29, 2023 3:03 pm

Posaunus wrote: ↑Sun Oct 29, 2023 2:37 pm I stumbled on an (older?) large-shank Schilke 53. Cup I.D. ~25.4mm (1.0"); Throat 6.15mm (0.242"). Sort of a smaller 6½AL with a Schilke rim.

I don't play it; would be willing to part with it. I'm still a bit partial to my long-shank Schilke 51 with my Conn 88H.

Hmm..Specs on the Schilke website says 26,2mm inner rim , throatsize ‘234 , but that may vary.. I have a theory that This piece is an older small shank piece that was made with a big rim.. All the small pieces has a ‘234 throat too.. So ; shallower than a Bach 5G ,then ?

I noticed that in the catalog too. Mine is obviously the older, smaller version of the Schilke 53.

Harry Maddox (Atlanta Symphony) recommended the 53 for me to use on my Elkhart 88h. This was about 1971. In 2014, I had a lesson with Doug Elliot and he said to was a good mouthpiece for me. It was the long shank version.

I’ve owned a gold plated 53 large shank since about ‘93 or so. I forget exactly why and who recommended it, but there was a reason. Used it for a couple of concert cycles….. I *think* I know where it is now.

I believe this was at a time when I was moving around between tenor and bass a bit, life was better when I just learned to adjust.

Cheers,
Andy

Tbarh wrote: ↑Sun Oct 29, 2023 11:03 am but it should be a small matter to increase the bore size..

Tbarh

It's not as trivial as you might think. Drilling the throat out will likely ruin the intonation and have less effect on the blow than you'd expect. All you're doing when you drill it out is increasing the cylindrical length of the throat, which increases the resistance. Even though the bore increases, the resistance increases along with it.

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Mon Oct 30, 2023 8:03 am

Tbarh wrote: ↑Sun Oct 29, 2023 11:03 am but it should be a small matter to increase the bore size..

Tbarh

It's not as trivial as you might think. Drilling the throat out will likely ruin the intonation and have less effect on the blow than you'd expect. All you're doing when you drill it out is increasing the cylindrical length of the throat, which increases the resistance. Even though the bore increases, the resistance increases along with it.

Should have mentioned that i do not bore out mouthpieces myself !